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  • latest reply 3 years ago

3 years ago

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With CSA's ( community supported agriculture) being popular the last few years, and with Bernie Sanders running for president , does anyone here consider CSA's a form of socialism? I think most conventional agriculture now days is socialist. The government funds a lot of cost share , beginning farmer loans , government crop insurance etc. etc. Does anyone think we are there and getting worse?

Klaus Karbaumer says 2016-05-12 15:46:38 (CST)

I don't know if my response to Dusty and Kevin made it through, so here it is again: Whenever we decry the influence of " Big Government" we mustn't forget that power vacuums have a tendency to be filled by somebody. If the majority of a population doesn't care about an issue, there will always be some who do, and if they can wield influence somehow or other, they will. A lot of government intervention stems from complaints about bad business practices, and even cheating, other government intervention comes from direct pleas for help from various organizations, in the case Kevin mentioned, it's the sugar industry. Where we do not want to limit the size of some operations, they will grow, even if it hurts the interests of many. We would have to live in a dictatorship to rule out the open constant tug of war between different interests, although this conflict even exists there, albeit not out on the open.

3 years ago via Forums | Front Porch Forum

Dusty 4R says 2016-05-13 05:36:34 (CST)

Klaus, I understand. A while back horses weren't worth much so folks didn't breed as many. Now the prices are high on both drafts and saddle horses. Now, if you had kept breeding horses because the government kept paying you to breed them, no matter the price, the price would never come up. Years ago farmers had cattle, sheep, hogs, horses, hay, some grains. Now everyone plants corn because they get paid subsidies and they do nothing else. This is somewhat a dictatorship in farming. Example. (You can google this) a welder bought 9 acres of land in wyo, builds a pond with all the permits from wyo,ask all the right people etc. then the EPA comes along and fines him 37000$ a day until he restores the land back the way it was eventually reaching 16 mil in fines. He says no, goes to court, they just settled. How? Well, the government says we'll let you keep your pond but, you have to plant willows around the edge and keep cattle to a controlled access for water to your(?) pond. So who's in total control here on land, water, prices etc. Where's the free market in capitalism? So don't help the sugar farmers and they will smarten up . IMHO. And you say? Socialist or capitalist?

3 years ago via Forums | Front Porch Forum

NoraWI says 2016-05-14 09:41:11 (CST)

If you think this country is *socialist,* then you don't understand the terms "socialism,""communism," nor "capitalism." Look them up. While you are at it, look up "fascism," "runaway capitalism" as well as "rise of corporations."

3 years ago via Forums | Front Porch Forum

Klaus Karbaumer says 2016-05-17 09:21:48 (CST)

Dusty, I do not disagree with you that the examples you brought show how bad government regulations can distort the market and the case of the guy with the pond is ridiculous if it happened the way you report it. The point I am trying to make here is that these regulations do not spring out of the blue sky. Somebody is/was behind them who had economic or other interests. In the case of corn subsidies it is big agriculture, the chemical, fertilizer and seed companies as well as the ethanol industries. Why can that happen against the interests of regular farmers? Well, the answer is not so hard: As long as people support farming associations which propose such policies and vote politicians into office who argue for " limited government", they will open the doors for those who want to tilt the playing-field to their own advantage. If somebody tells you it is against capitalist principles to limit the size of an operation, they are just willing to let many small ones be swallowed up by the bigger one with better access to more capital, much to the detriment of rural communities. Quite frankly, I do not care what we call it, but I think every economic move has to be considered in its consequences. Too often the abstract term " freedom" has been misused by powerful economic interests to advance their own cause and has misled the population into acceptance of policies that were not in their own best interest. Blind belief in ideologies, be they economic, political and even religious, hampers intelligent thinking about the issues and makes smart solutions pretty much impossible.

3 years ago via Forums | Front Porch Forum

Fort Causeway says 2016-05-25 00:16:13 (CST)

Klaus, I think I agree with you in your statements, though your affluent anti corporation rhetoric does not give me actual practical traction make headway.

Your quote, "

As I pointed out earlier, Vince and Kevin, it seems that in the USA "socialism" for big corporations and enterprises in the form of subsidies, tax breaks , write-offs, etc. meets with less resistance than forms of mutual assistance for ordinary people.

Klaus, to me, this just means 'ordinary people' as you put it have more reason to push hard and kick some butt and make their own game, according to supply and demand protocols of economy in our region. What we can do proactively is going to be on a local regional level not even supposing or allowing the federal government has jurisdiction to fix these issues.....

I didn't do well in college. But I did remember economics class when large arrrows of funds go into government, and small arrows arrows always go out..... The current disproportionate of private to public sector jobs is not sustainable.

Personal responsibilty with local community backing support is the answer, not Federal jurisdiction to play the individual against the corporation.
In my opinion, keep it simple will work best, and practical skills and problem solving are at a premium. Most in government dont have these arrows in the quiver and we need to be more involved locally instead of complaining regionally.

3 years ago via Forums | Front Porch Forum

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