I have done many searches and looked at many different sites regarding scratches. My 5 yo Shire has been loosing his feathers(whole chucks)from the inside and outside of his hoof. I noticed, as I was checking his skin beneath his feathers, what I first thought was some sawdust embedded in his feathers, but it was just above his fetlock in the back of his front left leg. Upon further inspection, it looks like dried, hard flakes of skin. I don't see any skin problems.
Is this beginning stages of scratches?
Any recommendations for a definitive answer?
Can any vet decipher?
IF it is scratches, what is a really world approach?
I've seen where I would need to wash everyday and apply sulfer and mineral oil.
We are at a circa 1812 barn/apt. No wash stalls, no hot water. So until weather is above 40's for a period of time, this is not a realistic treatment option, and even then don't know if could be done everyday.
No offense to my local veterinarians, but after my EPSM fiasco, my confidences are low.
I am really struggling with this horse.
Please help!

Hi Kim... I know what you mean about not trusting your Vet's. When my Perch mare had a severe case of scratches they were of no help to actually come up with anything that helped.
So, I went on my own and did my own research and talked to many people. It does sound like the beginnings of scratches. Does it have pustules with raised bumps on skin? You must catch this in the beginning or it does get out of hand. My mare after a lot of perseverance, finally cleared up. But I did it mainly on my own. There are many things you can do, but getting a skin scraping will help to assess what it is exactly.

thanks Becki.
Can any vet do the skin scraping or did you have a dermatologist do it?
No pustules that I can see, just hard flakes of what looks like sawdust, but is skin, but I can't see where it's coming from. It is embedded in his feathers and you can only see if you spread the feathers, but he seems overly sensitive too.
Dr. Valentine has been such a help with Monte and his EPSM I was hoping she could help with the scratches mystery.
It seems like there is no agreement for causes, symptoms or treatment. I've seen everything from sauerkraut to shaving to not shaving to wrapping to not wrapping. VERY frustrating.

That is good if you don't see raised bumps with the pustules. But if he is sensitive their ,it sounds like it is the beginning of scratches.
I got a good product from Keratex. It is a powder that you can rub in for the scratches. It keeps it dry and it works well.
Yes, a vet can take the skin scrapings. This way you can see if it is fungal, bacterial or mites. The website for Keratex is keratex.net. My mares legs were bad, so I took it upon myself to treat all three. good luck, becki

I actually got the Keratex mud sheild powder sometime ago and was applying it somewhat regularly until Monte decided the powder freaked him out!!! So to be honest I'm not sure if he started pulling his feathers out after I started using mud sheild or not. I mean he actuals sees me with that specific bottle and his legs start to tremble as though I was puting scalding water on him!

I think it now looks like, upon further inspection to be on all of his legs. This was my worse nightmare because there is really NO way to do away with MUD! or wash his legs EVERY DAY. Hence, my thoughts on looking to sell him. I've really had a time with this horse and I've only had him 6 months.
thanks for your response.

Kim I am so sorry you have had such a time... The only thing at this point is to shave the legs and get a better look. And i know that cosmetically it isn't what we want to do with our Drafts.

I wonder if the sound of the puffing noise from the mud shield powder is what bothers him?? I know when I put on Wonder Dust my horses jump a mile. they can be weird...

After I got my Perch's under control I didn't have any more trouble ,but it is something that has to be maintained. My Belgian mare had scratches bad a few years ago and she has permanent flaking but no more sores. I hate to see you give up just yet but I do understand when it is one thing after another. becki

There are about a thousand "cures" for scratches. :-) The two things that worked for Bart are to stop hosing his legs - yes - the only time he ever had scratches was at a barn where they hosed their feet before bringing them in at night. And a mix my vet suggested. Get a jar of Ichthammol ointment and mix in two tubes of cortisone ointment from the drugstore. Apply topically. The Ichthammol holds the cortisone in place. We have tons of mud here in Seattle, but it worked. It might work for you.

Kim, I think that clipping the hair on all legs is going to be a good idea. That way the skin can "breathe" and dry better. From what you describe I am most suspicious of leg mange mites (Chorioptes), which cause flakey skin and hair loss. They are often also very itchy. Treatment with oral ivermectin dewormer twice at 2 week intervals helps, but sometimes you need a topical insectacide such as used for dogs with fleas. Before you do anything, though, I would really get a veterinarian to check him. I don't think this is necessarily something that will be a future problem.

kim... I did treat for mites on my mare with a flea and tick shampoo and spray called Malaseb. You can get it from a vet. It does help with the itching alot. And dosed with the Ivermectin like Doc beth said. I also, put her on lots of Vitamin C to up her immune system (4000mg)/day.

Dr. Valentine,
He is ALL over itchy. Uses anything, trees, posts, barn, fence to scratch himself. Hasn't lost hair anywhere except his feather.
If it is in fact Chorioptes will this show up on a scraping or do we have to do a skin biopsy? And is the scraping or biopsy done exactly where the flaking is occurring? Vet is coming Wednesday, but I like to have as much info to help as possible.
Thank you.

Kim... what did the Vet say? I do know that the Chorioptes can get in the mane and tail also. Hope all went well. Let us know. becki

vet didn't see any Chorioptes or anything on skin scraping HOWEVER I had to educate her on EVERYTHING about feathered breeds and the fact that they are more prone to mites, scratches, etc. So like i said I really don't have much faith in my Vet helping me concerning my Shire. They have none or few feathered clients in the area.
Can horses get lice?? and would i be able to see?
My horse shares his pasture with his best friends, turkeys, chickens and guineas. Could he have lice from the fowl in the area???
Now his mane is looking scraggly. When he came here in October he had nice long feathers and nice tidy long mane. He is not scratching his tail (yet).
ANY advice?????
My vet gave me lime sulfur to put on, I got ready to but saw the color and decided not to until i looked up on internet - (would have stained his feathers) I got the spray on frontline she said to put under belly along mane and in feathers. Not sure how to really get into the feathers with this stuff. also to Ivermectin him every 2 weeks.
ANY advice?????? Please help.
If I sulfur and oil legs does that just prevent scratches or would it help with mites, lice?????
UGGGGGGHHH I am so frustrated.

I had asked my vet if lice from other species can infect horses. (I had a puppy with lice). She said that lice from other species don't infect each other, only stay on the original host.

I know you probably hate to clip the feathers if you haven't already, but I really feel that it is the only way to treat it properly. Can you not get a bucket of warm water everyday and scrub with a medicated shampoo? Make sure you rinse and dry competely. Like I said, I treated my mare for mites, bacteria and fungus, and whatever little buggers that could be a threat. I did use quite a few natural homeopathic remedies after the vet couldn't seem to give me anything to actually work better. You could also use a product by Shapely called MTG. It is an oil based sulfur product. I always put it on my horses mane and tails every summer for itching. Gosh, I am so sorry for you. But keep trying and get something to raise the immune system. I used Vitamin C, but there are other products out there too.

Sounds like you and your veterinarian have a lot of bases covered here. Lime sulfur is a good "all around" skin treatment that smells bad but works well for fungi, mites, and some bacteria. It is also relatively inexpensive.

From the total body itch and the mane and tail issues I would also wonder about lice. He wouldn't get them from the birds, though. I could also be allergic to either gnat bites (which are already an issue here in Western Oregon) or to the birds. I hope not the birds, since they are his friends! So, there could be more than one problem here. I'd suggest going with with veterinarian's advice. Please clip the feathers to allow the medications to do their best action and also to allow the skin to dry, which will help to reduce infections. Ivermectin might also help if he has biting lice, not so much if they are sucking lice. You can see the eggs of lice (called nits) attached to hairs if you look very closely deep in the haircoat, especially in the mane. They are white oval structures, different from dandruff flakes. Picking some up with clear adhesive tape and putting on a microscope will confirm they are not dandruff. Powder insecticides are very effective for lice, but I suspect even this veterinarian would have seen them if lice were the problem. Good luck!

Vet didn't see any Chorioptes or anything on skin scraping, HOWEVER I had to educate her on EVERYTHING about feathered breeds and the fact that they are more prone to mites, scratches, etc. So like I said, I really don't have much faith in my vet helping me concerning my Shire. They have none or few feathered clients in the area.

Can horses get lice?? And would I be able to see?

My horse shares his pasture with his best friends, turkeys, chickens and guineas. Could he have lice from the fowl in the area???

Now his mane is looking scraggly. When he came here in October he had nice long feathers and nice tidy long mane. He is not scratching his tail (yet). ANY advice?????

My vet gave me lime sulfur to put on. I got ready to, but saw the color and decided not to until I looked up on internet (would have stained his feathers). I got the spray-on Frontline. She said to put under belly along mane and in feathers. Not sure how to really get into the feathers with this stuff. Also to Ivermectin him every 2 weeks.

ANY advice?????? Please help. If I sulfur and oil legs, does that just prevent scratches or would it help with mites, lice?????
UGGGGGGHHH I am so frustrated.

Does MTG smell HORRIBLE??? I bought some and ended up pouring out. I have bought TONS of different horse/human products and haven't found anything that really does work.
Also Dr. Valentine - the lime sulfur dip stains his white feathers so I haven't used. Would doing the mineral oil and sulfur "milkshake" work for mites/lice in addition to scratches???
Another note - he still is on his downturn regarding EPSM. Farrier came yesterday to trim and Monte really struggled, legs just trembled trying to hold up. His diet is about 6 cups Triple Crown Low Starch, 3 cups oil, 1/2 scoop selenium 2x day. turnout 24/7. And exercise is becoming more consisent as the weather permits.
thanks in advance for all the help with this guy.

Kim, don't worry about the stain - it will wear off. My reply is a bit out of order but this really is a good product to use in skin disease, especially when you're not quite sure what it is. And, if you clip those feathers first (which I highly recommend - it will look odd for awhile, but the hair will grow back)it will just be skin, and his feathers will grow out just fine. I have no experience with mineral oil and sulfur, but I know some feathered draft owners use this as a preventative. Affected skin needs to breathe, though, and so coating with mineral oil doesn't sound good to me. I would think it would attract dirt, also.

As to his muscles, are his legs bothering him enough to keep him from moving around as much as usual? Other than that I don't see anything wroing with your diet, other than perhaps trying to increase oil slightly while he is doing badly.

As always, good luck!

Kim

I hope by the time you get this e-mail you have managed to get on top of Monte’s “itchy legs”. I don’t have much experience of scratches (is that the same as mud fever?) but for what it is worth I can give you my experiences of mites. My Belgian got mites in her feathers a number of years ago and we treated it with an over the counter product for human use (for lice & crabs) – Quellada Malathion Liquid (UK). If lice are the problem, although you should be able to see them, this will also help here. We rubbed this lotion into her dry clipped legs, left it on for a week or so, gave it a second application with what was left in the bottle – mites cleared up and never came back. A couple of years ago Squib developed a terrible itch on her back legs, one leg was so bad in particular that you couldn’t even touch it. The consensus of opinion was that it was mites - we treated her with Quellada and twice with Spot On, however this was not any help and as it only seemed to be one leg that was really badly affected I ask our vet to do a skin scraping to check that it was mites and we discovered she had some sort of skin infection which we managed to clear up in a matter of days. I felt terrible as poor Squib had been suffering and going demented for a couple of months while we tried all sorts of remedies.

The Malaseb anti bacterial and anti fungal shampoo mentioned by Becki is a wonderful product. I don’t think it clears up mites, lice, etc but it does give them a bit of relief for a short time and I used it occasionally on Squib’s legs to keep any little problems at bay – definitely something I keep in my grooming kit.

Please do clip Monte’s legs to allow any treatment to get through to the skin and anything ”hiding” in his feathers will get cut away and prevent reinfestation – Monte will thank you for it and it will make your life a lot easier!. Not pretty, I know, but they will grow back very quickly.