We are looking for ways to use our horses more and be more profitable as a farm business. We are NOT in the position to have 100+ acres of farm land like many of you. We re trying to make some decisions based on our current resources, and I would love thoughts from those of you who have been at this a while....

We have 25 acres, 14 of which is steep, hilly, thick woodland on which we hope to clear some trails and maybe open a few more acres of pasture over time. About 6 acres is pasture, and the remainder is the house/barn/orchard/gardens/etc.

We raise pastured broilers, layers, and turkeys with portable shelters that rotate around the pasture. We also raise a few grass fed/finished steers rotated almost daily, meat rabbits, and dairy goats and hogs out in our woodlands.

We buy roughly 1000 bales of 60 lb squares a year, or the equivalent to get us through winter and droughts, or as supplement.

We have been offered the free use of 3 separate plots of land, ranging from 1/2 acre to 1.5 acres to use for grazing or hay/grain, and an additional 4 acres for haying only. All 4 plots are located within 1/2 mile of our farm. We are also getting increasing numbers of offers to hay land ranging from 1 acre to 15 acres that is further (up to 15 miles). Normally, I realize how inefficient that is, but I wonder if it would be worthwhile due to our limited land base.

We do have temporary portable fencing systems. We don't have haying equipment. This year, we scythed a little of one plot that has been planted in alfalfa/timothy, dried it, and then hand-rolled it into loose tied bales. Another plot we used to rotationally graze the horses, as it is too big of a hassle to move steers around for only a couple of days worth of grazing. We haven't used the other 2 plots in any way this year due to lack of time and plenty of our own grass requiring grazing.

If I use the other properties to graze the horses, it keeps the horses off my land, and allows me to either expand my steer numbers or make hay (the steers can only graze about 30% of it during the growing season, so we wind up mowing it regularly to keep the rotations going). The small properties are a bit of a pain, though, as each owner wants their parcel to be our biggest priority, of course, and we can't. Should we stay smaller and use what we have? Should we continue using the parcels for horses and make hay by hand? Should we forget the small plots and look for a larger plot within a few miles to graze/hay? Should we even consider investing in hay-making equipment? If not hay, what about grains? We use a lot of oats and wheat, and I grew a small plot of oats last year successfully.

Our Amish friends are counseling us to not even consider the equipment, but we don't have reliable sources for good quality hay, which is another issue in itself. Others are saying our farm would be more profitable if we get the equipment and go for it, even if just to use the horses and make our own feed.

We definitely need a better plan for next year. So, what would you do in our situation? Thanks in advance for all your ideas!

At one time or another, we've made our own hay, paid someone to custom bale, and bought it. For us the cheapest and most reliable way has been to buy it in the field. The price is relatively low, and if a bale is bad we leave it.

A thousand small squares is approximately what I buy each year. I, too, have debated getting equipment. Since I have much more land and rotationally graze other's cows, there is usually grass available for haying. What I found out for myself is that having a close-by farmer with soon-going-extinct small-bale equipment to do the haying has the same variables as doing it myself. There are the weather worries, equipment breakages, and timing worries. Also, the quality of the hay being made. I have bought hay in the past. and have also had others make hay on my land on shares.

My conclusion has been that buying hay is head and shoulders preferable for ME. I know the quality of what I get before I get it. I don't have to worry about equipment breakdowns, the vagaries of weather, nor the available time. Of course, over the years, the price per bale has tripled, but so have all the associated costs. And the buying power of the dollar has dwindled. My decision has been to go back to buying the hay that I like from the people who will deliver it in a predictable fashion.

Your circumstances are different so you are wise to parse it out mentally and take all the pros and cons into consideration. I wish you well, whatever your decision as I do not consider making hay by hand to be a viable long term option for anyone.

I've been in a similar situation. Hay is the cheapest feed you can possibly buy. You can take the land you were going to hay put in strawberries and make 50-500x the money you'd save by haying it. At least here you could.

You might consider streamlining your operation too. It's real easy to get too much livestock.

I think making your own hay at what ever level is part of the process. Even if you do some part of it ie, mowing, tedding or raking. The worries and frustrations are part of this life. I urge all heavy horse owners to be part of their own forage solutions.

You can greatly cut down the cost of forage by buying 3x3x8 foot bales. Each bale is the equivalent of about 11 small bales. Bigger squares are even available. Round bales can be had, but they are as not easy to feed. I use a chainsaw to cut down the center of my large squares so I can feed flakes of 3 ft x 18"

Even the cost of renting a skid steere with hay tines for 1/2 day is cheaper than buying small squares.

Two semis of 3x3's would be slightly more than the 100 bales of 60lb bales.

However, buying hay to feed livestock, whether it be cows or horses is a losing proposition if one is in the farming business. If a person does not have adequate pasture and hay making capabilities to put up enough hay for the winter, profits will not be enough to sustain the farm.

I would look at possibly acquiring a smaller team, perhaps haflingers or fjords, or even a small team of mules to cut the hay cost considerably to accomplish the work being done on 25 acres and not be feeding any beef.

Equipment is what causes every and all farmers to go broke. Makes no difference what size the operation, JD and IH win the battle.

Very true Dale, but if you have to buy hay for all your livestock even with all old horse drawn equipment you will go broke or at least profits will be minimal.

I was having someone cut/bales large rounds in the one hay field, problem with that was that he would get to it when he could and also buying to make up the shortages. After the drought a few years back, I put in another 15 acres of good hay, picked up used small baling equipment for next to nothing, now I cut/rake and small bale a good portion of the first cut as well as hire a round baler to bale the rest , probably 40-60, small to rounds, second and third cut are all small bales, where would get one cut off before, I am getting 3 on a good year.
Being self-reliant is huge doing hay while maintaining a full-time job can be less than ideal, with weather windows not working as planned and baling not quite dry hay late Sunday evening.
As others have said, if I had to buy hay I wouldn't be able to do it.

Dale, I like your concise and poignant statements, even though sometimes, like in this case, they need a little clarification: I fully agree that many farmers over-equip themselves, but if the equipment is purchased with the size of the operation in mind and what is affordable for said operation , then some purchases can be very profitable and helpful: For example, if a mower is in the price range of the hay purchased for a year or lower, then it can make very well make sense to get one (provided of course one knows how to operate it safely). One the other hand, if a piece of equipment is just bought to speed things up without actually improving the balance sheet, then one should better desist from purchasing it. I bought my #9 mower for $300 a few years ago after others I had used developed a few problems and I got my side-delivery rake for less than $50 out of a fence-row, fully usable. I wouldn't have purchased new ones.
Basically I agree with your premise that a farmer should check who is helped more, his operation or the manufacturer. What equipment should not do under any circumstances is force the farmer to do things that he/she otherwise wouldn't do. During these last weeks some farmers in our area were too optimistic about the possibility of rain-free days and since they had the technical ability to cut a lot of hay at once they did it( I know of several cases where up to 40 acres were cut) and now it is out there slowly moldering away.

Mpt, in answer to your question, I would keep the animals close to home.
Responsibly mine some of their soil and feed the production on yours. While managing their property so it is better than when you started....
In relation to the later equipment conversation; I can't hate tractors and equipment. We sold the draft horses to get profitable, because euphoric dreams won't put food on the table. With a 230pto hp tractor, no till seeder, and no till subsoiler we are now supporting 60 AU worth of certified organic sheep on 65 irrigated acres. To make our own equipment mortgage payment, we do custom work for others to assist their dreams building sustainable farms in the high desert on small acreages.
When we build some deep rooted perennial soils here, and work out a way to pasture crop with draft horses, we are going to upgrade back to draft power....Until then big equipment is a neccessary risk for us.

Good advice Kevin. I remember while I was growing up, we did custom farming for others. Particularly cutting and baling hay and combining oats and barely.
A team of horses were used to hay hillsides that tractors could not be used on. However we had adequate pasture and hay fields to feed all the cows and horses.

Do you have a forecart? if so then you maybe able to hire someone to mow and bale for you and rake with your horses and pick up bales out of the field with your horses. A decent side delivery rake will run you about $750. A hay rack will most likely be the same and you'll be able to put your horses to work on the haying

the problem we deal with is that no one here will do small acreages in a timely manner any longer. Many of the equipment owners are aging, or have day jobs and hay on the side. We had someone helping us when we first moved here, but he has since stopped small properties. Of my neighbors who still manage to hire it done, I have seen their fields go to waste time and again. The hay makers save them for last, let them go to seed, let weeds overtake the fields, cut just before rain, and then get it rained on. In addition, crazy as it sounds, one of the neighbors who still gets a 2 acre property done has to pay the guy to do it, PLUS he gets all the hay! What kind of deal is that?!

So that is where my original question comes in. We either buy, saving a little by picking up in the field, or we buy equipment and do these small acreages for folks that no one else wants.

Another expense for haying is maintaining soil ph and fertility.

We'll be putting up our last hay this year. We are also on a waiting list with the hay guys and our very expensively maintained hay is turning to straw while we wait for him. Some of the local hay guys are pulling out, no longer doing local fields. We are too old and have no help...one horse is now too old to eat the home grown hay and the other two are not far behind. Call it the passing of an era. Great. Maybe now we can go camping!

Here are my 2 cents:
We make loose hay in the best fields around our place. We raise sheep instead of cattle so we can move them to the farthest fields. If you are handy I suggest getting a mower, tedder and dump rake. You will be able to put up hay pretty cheap. Folks are correct there is no way you could make hay with a tractor cost effectively. Start with a mower and keep your eyes out for an old tedder and rake, I have found several for cheep money. It does not take long to make back the money you had spent on the mower after you are cutting even just a few acres a year.
I know it is obvious when one says it but if you spend a dollar you need to earn one to potentially make a profit. It appears your profit is going to the hay guy. If ones biggest obstacle to making a profit is their hay bill then that person needs to figure out how to reduce it whether it is reducing stocking numbers, grazing management or farm produced stored forage. For example we found we were overstocked. Last year we reduced our flock of sheep significantly and it was like a weight taken off my shoulders, and my checkbook. After looking at the numbers last winter I realized I can make more money with 8-10 ewes than 20. Growing a little corn and putting up some loose hay I can feed a small number of sheep and a few ponies, if I get bigger I need to start spending a lot more. I think small farms have it hard since it is easy to get a little too big and the profit seems to disappear at that point.
Billy

On slight tangent, is there a good book or a clinic anyone can recommend on the topic of making loose hay? Like the Mptclinics, I have a smaller farm. It'd never make economic sense to buy tractor haying equipment. I don't have a team at the moment and realistically won't have time to deal with one for a few years. Anyone who would do a good job custom haying for me is bound to have more work than the can handle already. Grass in my pastures isn't great, but certainly ok for sheep, etc as extra forage to help them stay warm this winter. And the fields need mowing whether from bushhogging or haying. Heck. Can I just cut it an acre or so with a scythe in the worst-case scenario?

While I do not have an interest in cutting hay with a scythe, to much hay and not enough time, I have found the "scythe community" has a lot of info on loose hay making.
Here is an article I read that had a bunch of good info: http://scytheconnection.com/loose-ways-of-making-leafy-loose-hay/
Lynn Millers book on making hay with horses has a ton of info as well
Billy

I have a grand total of 14 acres, 4 in pasture, 10 in alfalfa mix. I have a deal with a neighbor - 50/50 - he puts up the hay, we each get half. IF you keep the field healthy, you can get a lot of hay from 10 acres. First cutting, if it were all mine, would feed my 4 horses all year. If you can find someone to do the hay in shares, so you spend no money, it is a great way to get hay. Otherwise, growing your own grains may be a better investment for you. Hay equipment that is in good condition is expensive, and plan on a lot of repairs, too. Which are frustrating - but thankfully my neighbor's frustration, not mine (poor guy)...

I live in a once rural area that is now not so much so. I have people that have bought a 5, 10, 15 acre parcel and plunked a house in the middle of it and now want it hayed. They run the table on reasonable. I have $60 a ton into putting up hay. Tractor, swather, baler, twine, fuel, labor and it all adds up. I do it on a 60-40 split in my favor if there is 1.5 tons to the acre. Under a ton to the acre and I take it all. It is all in writing up front. Most the fields aren't maintained in any way. I have more people calling than I can get to.

Just the same story from the hay guys perspective.

Cut some Red Clover hay this weekend. Had to put it in hay cocks since it has been raining every couple days and couldn't get it dry before the next rain. No engines just horses which I would have to feed anyway, equipment has long been paid for. A bunch of work but one needs to exercise anyway (funny how forking hay is work to get out of but folks will pay to go to the gym).

Here are some picks and a couple short videos

KM - we see the same thing here. Fields that are rank and folks want you to hay them so they can: 1) reduce fire danger and mostly 2) qualify for ag exemption on their property taxes.

The problem with doing custom haying ---- everyone wants theirs cut yesterday and there's only one of me. Not worth it in my book unless, like Mptclinics, you can use the additional hay or grazing in your operation. Cash-wise ..... nah.