Haflinger traits
Posted by Lori S. at 2014-11-10 15:47:37
I have a team of haflingers (ages 6 and 8). I have driven them for 2 years. This year they did so much better than the first now that we are used to each other. I can hitch by driving over the pole now. They stand to be unhitched by myself. Right now I always drive with a helper.
They drive very well. They have done things this year they would not do last year. Crossing a bridge or railroad tracks. Traffic does not phase them. Airplanes over head no bother.
The team spends the winter months at my parents. They think the team is not safe for me. I don't have any problems with them. They are not dead heads but very controllable. My parents see them out in the pen and you can make a noise or something falls and they take off. They don't do that under harness. But so much more when free. Course my dad is comparing them to his very laid back drafts who would rather stand than go.
I can drive 12 miles. They look tired but turn them out in the field and they can take off running feeling good. I'm trying to ignore the comments made about them. If I feel nervous about the situation when driving, say a parade, I don't do it. I have not done a parade yet. Who knows they might be fine. They don't seem to mind commotion. It is the quiet and then a noise or something that can set them off to spook. Maybe they do it for fun.
How do other Haflingers behave?
Response by Vince Mautino at 2014-11-10 21:30:54
This is not a well seasoned team. Don't even think about a parade until you have a lot more years and miles on them.
If they spook in a parade, you not only put yourself at risk ,but everyone along the parade route.
Haflingers do not have the same temperament as a team of belgiums or other heavy horses. Yes, you will receive comments that this person or that person's team are well mannered, extremely docile and work willingly. If you look into the past breeding of them, you will find some infusion of Arab blood. That is a warm blood horse and I am convinced that they still have those traits in them to some degree.
My only experience is breeding mules with them and that proved to be a mistake, at least for me. They area little too spirited. I sold my last one early this year. After twelve years and thinking I really new her, she ran off with me in the mountains and I ended up in an ER in not so good a shape
If this team ends up spooking and running off with you, you will have whole new outlook on the situation.
If they spend 1/2 the years at your parents, they might be just over fed and underworked, but I'd sure progress cautiously.
I'd trust your parents instincts on this.
Response by Bill Smith at 2014-11-11 07:21:09
Horses are like people, some are different than others. Haffies, IME, have a more playful nature than, say, a Belgian or Perch. My Haffies are clowns and they run for the fun of it. They're about the same age as yours. Just put as much time on them as you can and they'll get better and better. As far as parades, unless you drug a horse there is no 100% surety there will never be an issue. The best behaving horses tend to be the ones used the most, with the most miles on them. I'd be asking Dad to use them, tell him he';s so good with his horses you want him to help with yours. Chances are they're just under worked in winter. Use the old mans ego, all us Dads like that.
Response by Billy Foster at 2014-11-11 09:52:25
My Halfies are pretty much the same way you explained Lori, and in an environment they are comfortable in they appear “dead broke” capable of anything. Having said that I could never be convinced to take them to a parade and I most likely would not even attend a fair. Nothing against either, or those that do, but I am just not willing to risk it. I have horses to farm with and they do great at that. In my head it is safety, safety, over and over, I am sure as I get older I am less willing to take chances. I have no problem having mine work where they are uncomfortable or with equipment they are unfamiliar with but I do it at my own threat assuring that no one else is at risk. It sounds like you are doing a good job at being ready for those opportunities when they may spook. Keep working them and keep setting them up to succeed. Always be ready for that sudden noise or spook, dealing with the speeding loud car, bee sting or broken equipment is when it all counts. Concerning your dad: I of course do not know him but most guys tend to have less to prove as they get older and focus more on their people (family). He most likely has a lot of experience and can envision an accident because he has seen it happen to others or himself and does not want to see you hurt. I am sure he has some valid points and I bet he can help you develop your team and be safe at the same time. I can tell you from my own experience the older I get the smarter my father was.
Response by rdennis at 2014-11-11 10:53:37
Been driving this set every winter for 5 years, sound about like yours, they like to jog, not walk.. of course, they are only pulling a bale wagon with not a lot of weight on for very long.. this year we will winter more cows, they will have to pull more bales and I am sure as they get more work they will be more willing to walk, work does wonders for man and beast… they have more sprit and trot than the belgiuns and crosses I have driven in the past.. and like said above, all are different, I agree to the infusion of Arab blood at some point.. would like to breed one mare to a black stallion a couple of years and hope for a matched team of bays, but am afraid they will be hotter… no black stud's around here other than maybe a QH and the cross would apt to be hotter I am afraid, guess I will just have to find a nice team of bays and buy them… I sure like the size of these, I guess they are a bit bigger than most Halfies… about 14 to 15 hands weigh 1200 to 1300 pounds.. I have full sisters to these two, getting started by an Amish man who lives west of me, anxious to get to drive two full mated horses so they will hopefully travel at the same speed...
Response by wally b at 2014-11-11 14:34:14
I would never take my horses in a parade and they are well mannered and calm Belgians and Suffolks. The liability risk is too high, the ability to control the situation/crowds is very low, and the return for the event is nonexistent to little.
Wally B
Response by Simon Rodgers at 2014-11-11 15:37:23
I have a team of Haffies 15 and 16 years old .... still naughty but they log / pull hay wagons / pull carts, and we also did the father christmass thing in a school last year.
I made sure that when in doubt there is always my groom (my wife) at the head of the team, so far so good, but never 100% sure, there could always be a lurking quad bike.
One wise person said on this forum, don't buy a breed, buy a horse, only you know your own horses and the parade and the local personalities.
if you do the parade post piccies here though
good luck
Simon
Response by Lee in West Jefferson, N.C. at 2014-11-11 18:18:23
Haflingers do have Arabian in their ancestry. Some are a little more spirited than others. My Haflinger, Shiloh, happens to be one of the calmer ones, although he occasionally shies a bit at something strange. That said though, I would not put him in a parade mostly because of the thoughtless people who have no idea of how to behave around horses. Plus all the sirens, flags flying, etc. It's just too risky even though I do enjoy seeing horses and horse related sights in parades.
Response by Lori S. at 2014-11-11 18:36:20
I understand the risks of a parade and because of that I may never do a parade. I drive my team quite regularly say 2-4 times a week from April-September. The rest of the year is occasionally on weekends. They walk fine but will also trot for extended times. In the off season they are on either pasture or grass hay, no grain. I see their spookiness more in the off season when I am not working or handling them regularly. When being handled or under harness they seem like a different horses and worry less about things.Yes my parents are more on the cautious side. But for a young team I don't want to give up on them because of their ground manners when loose. I feel they did not have as much driving time before I got them as I had thought. They have improved so much this year as compared to when I first got them.
Response by Klaus Karbaumer at 2014-11-11 19:45:43
There is a preparation necessary for parades, no matter what the breed. The preparation goes for the driver and the horses. While the driver needs to learn to anticipate all possible risks and disturbances and how to deal with them, the horses need to be de-sensitized to those excitements, and that goes in stages and takes a while.
Also, the type of parade is very important , is it a small home-town parade with a few blocks down Main Street and then out, is it a stop-and-go kind of affair, or does it proceed at a good pace, does it take long with thousands of cheering spectators. The latter would mean an extended period of high stress which not all horses take well. I have seen Haflingers doing well in parades and drafts not so well, and vice versa.
When I participated in parades many years ago I usually would drive my horses there, not load them on a trailer. An hour or two of pulling a vehicle before the parade usually has a calming effect.
I do agree with all the warning voices, though.
For myself I do not participate in parades anymore for several reasons:
Since most of them would necessitate transporting the horses because of the big distances, there is always the issue of adding to the already big carbon footprint we leave as a society, it adds to the risks we take in traffic, it takes out one of the most rewarding aspects of driving horses, namely that they are a real mode of transportation, I wouldn't be able to give the horses the needed exercise right before a parade, and I do not want to be used as an alibi in a society that occasionally wants the horse as an embellishment, but otherwise is soaked in technological mania, removing all physical labor, be it human or animal, from its economic moorings. I have nothing against using local horses in local horse events, but I do not agree to horses being transported often over great distances to participate in parades or other horse events. Let's give the horse back its proper place on a daily basis, not at singular events.
Notwithstanding all that, I of course enjoy a good parade, albeit with mixed feelings when I learn that some of the participants brought the horses over great distances, sometimes hundreds of miles.
Response by M. Burley at 2014-11-11 21:22:13
Just found a team of Haflingers for some friends. 5 and 6 year old half brothers I think. These boys have been on roads since they were first broke and would be fine in any parade. A broke horse is a "BROKE" horse. When they are ready, your father will let you know.
Response by Brabant owner in SC at 2014-11-12 12:43:58
I have done a lot of rambling with horses over the past 20 years, going to horse events all over the country. I reckon I was doing just what Klaus doesn't believe should be done. But all those thousands of miles have given me an awful lot of good memories, and I have met an awful lot of fine horse people, even a few fine mule people! Anyway, this is just my observation. I have seen quite a few Haflingers at these events, maybe 200 by now. I would say probably 3 or 4 of them have been calm and laid back like most draft horses. The rest of them were always ready to move on out, plenty were ready to run off if given half a chance. I know I am in trouble now with some, but I am just reporting what I have seen. Like others said, get your Dad to help you evaluate your horses.
Response by Dale Wagner at 2014-11-12 15:47:20
I find it interesting that a touch of Arab blood a long long time ago makes a horse hard to control. If this is so how come a hundred years ago when we used horses, Percheron, which has a touch of the Arab blood, was the most prevalent breed. Is it because we have dumbed down our horses to where people who don't have the ability can still try to play with them?
Use any horse hard enough on short rations and they can be controlled. Give them good feed and play with them once or twice a year and you will have a hand full at first. Lot of difference between USING and PLAYING.
Response by Wes Lupher at 2014-11-12 19:13:06
They seem to be working little buggers but I have to say from the Haflingers I've seen they are pretty up headed horses.
Most of the time I need horses to stand more than jog so they've not interested me.
From my use of saddle horses and saddle mule (types) in harness I agree with Klaus and with Dale as well. If you have enough steady work for them you may be alright with them in those situations. If not, be careful.
Response by Renick Abbott at 2014-11-12 19:57:21
I did a lot research on Haflingers before buying a 8 year old mare. I found the blood lines do affect their temperment. The older blood lines, Drafty type are easier to work with. Horses out of the "M" and "W" lines tend to be the big butt and broad chested conformation. I have found they are a lot like mules in their thinking and smarts.
Response by T sigmon at 2014-11-12 20:12:17
My Haflingers seem to be the exception to what is described here, either that or I don't know a good horse from a bad one!
Response by KC FOX at 2014-11-12 20:40:43
the lack of work everyday is more to blame than Arab blood from along time ago. I've rode full blood Arab's after one week they went with heads down like the rest of the horses, all it takes is work every day. that will make good horses. almost no one does that anymore just don't have the time.
Response by Billy Foster at 2014-11-13 08:02:09
The truth is I really don’t know anything else but Haflingers. I used to do a little work with my wife's warm-bloods but coming from that the Halfies are pretty calm. This thread got me thinking about last Saturday:
The past month we have been in-between work, haying was done and no fire wood for a few more weeks, so the horses hadn’t done anything for almost a month. This past Saturday I hitched three to the forecart and headed down the town road just to get them out. I was pleased they just lazily walked the entire time except for a dog encounter and a little dancing as we went by my neighbors mare that was in heat. While I am sure to the drives going buy I was nothing more than an obstacle but I was a little proud that the horses didn’t even appear to notice the cars as they went by, a horse man driving by would have certainly said this is a well broke team. When we got back I used them to move a trailer disc and dump trailer to the fence row for the winter and they backed and stood well the entire time. Taking their harnesses off I was thinking how impressed I was with them. OK here is my point: while I think they are well behaved and a very workable teem I was impressed with their good behavior because I would not have been that surprised if they were jigging the entire trip. The day we went out was cool and the mood stayed calm but if it were 80 degrees, buggy and they for some reason had a hair across their butts it could have been a less than enjoyable afternoon. Don’t get me wrong attitude or not if there is work to be done they are working, attitude or not, and they finish the day but sometimes I have to work hard at not getting frustrated. In the context of my being a father and one of my kids wanting to drive I think to myself “would I hand the lines to one of the kids” my answer is no, at least not unless I was right next to them. The truth is I don’t trust them if I don’t have my hands on the lines.
Response by Rod SW WI at 2014-11-13 09:29:30
I have done couple all couple parades with mine and it is nerve racking. Never know what some spectator might. Not going to do anymore parades. (just hoping I will get strong enough to drive then again!)
Response by Klaus Karbaumer at 2014-11-13 09:30:40
Dale, the infusion of Arab blood didn't just occur at the beginning of the breed, almost two centuries ago. I remember the discussions, and some were heated, in the 60s and 70s in Bavaria and Austria. There were a lot of people who wanted to modernize the Haflinger into a more versatile riding horse, while the proponents of the agricultural type horse wanted to preserve the older version. In the mountains where it came from people didn't want the high-strung horse for their work, it was dangerous enough on the steep mountain sides, they needed a very calm animal. Generally speaking, the advocates of the modernized Haflinger won, because they said it was about marketability, and so there were more Arab crosses to make the horses "nobler". My assumption is that the majority of Haflingers imported into the US came from the modern side, the pictures even from the Horse Progress Days seem to show a prevalence of stream-lined Haflingers as opposed to the old type. But then, we have to concede that body type alone isn't always a reliable indicator for temperament.
Our stocky type of Haflinger also needs a good amount of work , even at his 16 years, before he is really calm. Our Percherons, who are younger, are less spirited than he is.
Response by Dale Wagner at 2014-11-13 09:50:00
I always tried to match the temperment of the horse to the job. A horse that is a good baby sitter is perfect to go out to the mailbox on, no surprises - take nap while going. If I had to make a big circle in rough ground or knew it would take all day and maybe part of a night to get things done, a horse that was "up headed" and had a hump in the back that I couldn't ride might be my choice. I maybe could steal a ride and get the job done and educate the horse some.
You need to trust a horse some. If you don't trust them to do right, they never will learn. If you think they might run, hook them where if they run they will just get tired and not get hurt.
When you get older, you remember how much it hurts to come off or how scary it is to be out of control. There is a time when you quit getting on one you don't trust. It is matching what is left of your ability to what can happen.
Response by Jenny at 2014-11-13 14:57:16
"The truth is I don't trust them if I don't have my hands on the lines." Only a horseman would say that.
Response by Lee in West Jefferson at 2014-11-13 17:07:42
As usual, Dale is exactly right with both his posts. The more I work/ride my Haflinger the calmer he gets. I am 77 yrs. old but I still like a bit of spirit in a horse I am riding.
Response by Mike in MI at 2014-11-14 11:37:45
What an interesting thread you started Lori! I agree with most, especially about using sweat to educate horses and driver.
Klaus, you mentioned Haflingers came into being a couple centuries ago. I had read that they were developed in the late 1800s in the Tyrol Mountains of Austria, and that the 7 foundation stallions were "stolen" back from the Italians after the end of WWI. Any truth to that?
Response by Lori S. at 2014-11-14 12:23:59
Yes Mike, it is an interesting thread. I enjoy reading everyone's comments.
Yes work makes a good horse. I know the situations my horses don't care for. Like we went on a large trail ride/drive this fall. There was an endurance ride going on a the same time. That made my team very energetic, no willing to stand and wait nice like they do normally. There are only a few people that I would trust my team with driving them. I know they are good horsemen and know how to read a horse. I have grown up with riding horses and love joining the driving world. I plan on doing more farming work this next year with the sodbuster club.
Each horse is an individual so can't really judge by the breed, but each breed does have its characteristics.
Response by Klaus Karbaumer at 2014-11-14 19:45:42
Mike, reports about a typical small mountain horse existed ever since the late Middle Ages. In 1875 the Austrian Department of Agriculture got interested in supporting the breeding of these horses as it was considered a way to help mountain farmers earn additional income. The first breeding association was founded in 1904.
The Haflinger got his name from the little village of Hafling in South Tyrol which at the time of the first organized breeding efforts belonged to Austria. After World War I, the Austrian-Hungarian Monarchy, being on the side of the defeated, was dissolved and Italy, being among the victors, was awarded all of South Tyrol. The Italians quickly recognized the importance of the breed and tried to obtain enough stallions (The majority of mares were in their territory on those aforementioned small farms, but the majority of the accredited stallions were in the Austrian State Stud Depot in Stadl near Lambach). I do not know anything about any theft, but I know it was not easy for the Austrians to re-build the breed with the few mares. In 1927 Austria could buy 100 original Haflinger mares , in 1936-38 Bavaria bought another 100 mares from South Tyrolian breeders. Obviously there were two different types of Haflingers already at that time, because it is reported that Austria bought the lighter type, while Bavaria bought the heavier ones. Maybe I should mention that typically in Europe support and regulation of horse breeding and especially the selection of stallions was and still is considered an important task of the Departments of Ag. This has historical reasons, as the military was the most important customer for horse breeders.
By the way, there also exists an Italian version of the Haflinger, the Avalignese, which is slightly larger and heavier than the original Haflinger nowadays.
Response by Sharon Anderson --- AWESOME ASS ACRES --- Etowah, TN at 2014-11-14 19:55:21
I have a team of Haflinger mares...bought them as a team 8 years ago...not related, but a year apart in age...they've been together since one was 2 and the other was a yearling...they are now 12 & 13 years old. They're fed the same, handled the same, worked the same (to clarify "work"...our horses/mules are for riding and pulling our wagon...we don't "work" them as most folks on the Forum do...even though I'd LOVE to get into more of that!!)...They are as different as night and day from each other! The 13 year old is steady, ALWAYS calm, ALWAYS predictable, ALWAYS dependable and ALWAYS ready for whatever comes her way! The 12 year old is extremely gentle, easy to handle, easy to calm when she boogers, but still a little high headed and jumpy around sounds, movement or sights...not necessarily new things either...it can be things she's been around hundreds of times. She doesn't have a mean bone in her body, never tries to hurt anyone intentionally, just skittish, IF you don't know what to watch for. A blind cat could harness, hook up and drive the older mare, but no one handles the 12 year old, but me and that method has worked so far. Once she's in harness, she listens and responds as well as the other mare...but, they are definitely good examples of how different two horses of the same breed, with the same background, can be!!
Response by Klaus Karbaumer at 2014-11-14 20:09:40
Maybe I should add to what I wrote that I remember having read somewhere that the first intentional use of Arabians in the breeding of Haflingers occurred already in the 1830s. Since there was no organized and supervised breeding of the mountain horses before the Austrian government got involved, breeders probably used whatever they could get to push the breed into the desired direction. In Bavaria , on the other hand, once the breed became established occasionally small Noriker stallions and mares were cross-bred into the Haflinger. Anyway, whatever the breeding efforts were, it would be hard to understand if the majority of breeders wanted anything else but a highly reliable workhorse which they used for farming and logging on the steep mountain sides of the Alps. And do not forget, the severe winters in that region, where snow is measured in meters, not inches , often forced the stabling of the horses for weeks. High-strung horses would have done badly in such an environment.
Response by Dan in Illinois at 2014-11-14 21:19:09
I never owned a haflinger but sounds like a horse I could like. I hate having to pedal one. I love the folks that feed them like race horses and expect to use them 2 times a year with no excitement.
Response by Vince Mautino at 2014-11-15 10:30:22
If some folks on her do not think different breeds have inherent traits, then why are there so many breeds that have been develop for certain tasks?
Why are thy classified into cold bloods, warm bloods and hot bloods? Why do they use thorobreds in racing, arabs in cross country endurance races? Percherons belgiums etc., for work and calmness?
If the arab blood didn't incorporate a higher strung horse as Klaus posted, why then didn't they just use a steadier breed of horse? Unfortunately when humans think they need to specialize a breed to accomplish certain task, they over look the possible unintended consequences such as poor temperament that ensues.
If different breeds did not have different abilities and different temperaments, we would all just go out and buy the next horse or mule we came across when needing one.
The halflinger breed is no different than any other specialized breeds and they are known to be mostly a higher strung equine. Some people like that, some don't.
Response by Bob S. Kansas at 2014-11-15 12:39:51
After years of owning the big draft breeds we decide to buy a team of haflingers. We couldn't be happier with them. We did know the team before buying them. They belonged to an Amish family we are friends with. The boys used them for all types of farm work. They will stand quietly when being hitched and unhitched and will stand until asked to step out. Like others have said they need to be worked regularly but all horses do.
Lori your dad worrying about you getting hurt is just natural. That's his job. Before my daughter and granddaughters came along I was dark headed with a full head of hair with no worries in the world. Now I'm gray and baldheaded.
Response by Mike in MI at 2014-11-15 19:21:46
Good info Klaus. I seem to recall they get their friendliness-with-people attitude from being stabled in barns that were attached, on the downhill side, of the houses. Many tales about their heart and heartiness. Glad to have owned a few.
Response by Klaus Karbaumer at 2014-11-16 10:10:53
I do not think, that's what I said, Vince, rather to the contrary. I do think that most of the high-strung behavior came when people started INTENTIONALLY to make the breed "nobler" with a higher number of Arab stallions, in the sixties the off-spring was called Arab-Haflingers and they allowed up to 75% Arab blood in the registrations before these attempts were shut down again. And as I noted , Noriker horses, which are so-called cold-bloods were used, too. Unfortunately the latter ones obviously lost out to the former ones in appreciation when the herds were built up after both WWs. I do agree that there are distinctive traits of all Haflingers, some of them being frugality in keep, longevity, durability, strength above what could be expected in proportion to their weight.
Response by Vince Mautino at 2014-11-16 13:17:22
Oops. Sorry I misunderstood Klaus. I like them built like this, but this mare did not have the temperament to produce good mules it seems
Response by Klaus Karbaumer at 2014-11-16 18:43:06
That's a nice looking mare, Vince. Yet you opened another question, and since I am not familiar with mules, but admire the people who work them, what kind of temperament do you expect of a mule-producing mare ?
Response by Klaus Karbaumer at 2014-11-16 18:59:26
By the way, as I re-read all the posts on this thread again I noticed what had escaped me before, that Rod is posting again. Great! We like to have you back! Hope everything is going well soon and you can hitch up again. I sure liked those videos of your great Haflinger team.
Response by Vince Mautino at 2014-11-16 21:39:23
Klaus. You want a calm, easy going,layed back type of temperament.
Response by Klaus Karbaumer at 2014-11-17 07:46:33
Vince, I like that type.
Why don't we have it as a norm in all horses that are used for work? Well, in breeding there is no guarantee that such traits will evenly spread. The problem of crossing horses of different types has benefits, but also drawbacks. The horse may have inherited its conformation from one side, but its behavior from the other side of its ancestors, that's when the surprises occur.
Response by Mooney Ranch at 2014-11-17 20:20:06
Bob S Kansas . Which is it , bald or gray? Or is your bald head gray? Lol
Have owned mules, Belgians and Percherons. Not to mention every other riding horse and pony. Never liked any like I do my Haflingers. ( but like every thing else I will sell em. I love em, but I'm not in love with them.)
Response by Charlie T at 2014-11-18 10:20:14
Looking at breeds from a slightly higher altitude, I have always been very impressed with the hitch Haflingers I see at the Midwest Horse Fair every year. They can stand outside the arena forever while the show gets its act together, and they are perfectly calm yet attentive. I can go talk the owner's ear off and everything seems fine. But the giant Belgians and Percherons at the show are very often much more excitable, hopping around and dangerous to go near. I've never been able to talk to the driver of one of these teams--they are way to occupied with trying to prevent a wreak. I should note that the Haflingers are nearly always the smallish, 13hh variety.
Response by Vince Mautino at 2014-11-18 21:22:53
There are horses at shows and horses on farms at work. Visit an Amish community where the horses are worked during the summer and you will see teams still in harness, not tied, standing in the shade of a big tree while the farmer is taking a lunch tree.
I'd never develop an opinion ,pro or con when looking at show horses.
Response by Vince Mauitno at 2014-11-19 08:28:12
That is a lunch break, not tree,
Oops
Response by Charlie T at 2014-11-19 08:53:54
I don't know--I sure like it when a horse can be calm amidst all the chaos at a show. A horse that can be calm on it's home farm, after a morning of hard work, is not as exceptional to me as one that can keep it's head at a show. To me, what I see at a horse show can give me clues as to the breed, the individual temperament, and the training.
Response by Mooney Ranch at 2014-11-19 12:37:03
When working my Haflingers to an 8' harrow on disced ground it doesn't take long till they will stand as long I allow. Any of them do good when they've been worked well. On the wagon they stand pretty good till your foot hits the wagon or cart. Then their heads come up. When I've been working them they will move only when I tell them. Harder work.
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