Any ideas on how to deal with the buddy sour team. I brought a team of 4 year old gelding ,that is doing great ,but they are really attached to one another. I have seen this before, but not this bad. I have given them time to adjust to us and there new home , but it's time to get down to business. I'm going to start separating them a little bit for short periods of time and try to build on that. I can see a big fight coming on strong and Don't want anyone to get hurt, especially me. There is always a better way to get things done and looking for Any suggestions , greatly appreciated

Shanen mannies

Buddy sour team. They like each other, they are a team, what's the problem?

I like my team to be buddy sour, then they appreciate each other and work as a team.

Shanen,

John Lyons works the buddy sweet horse near the other horse, taking it just out of its comfort zone and then back to the comfort zone. Once the comfort zone enlarges, the work moves out a little farther, then back. The thought process is that the horse learns to understand that it can return to comfort and eventually accepts the longer time and farther distance from the buddy. This might take a lot of time. However, you do get two birds with one stone as the buddy gets used to the separation as well. Well maybe not a full two birds, but the time to work the buddy will be less. Work can be ground work on a lead.

Good luck,

Neal

Jonathan, the problem is that there comfort zone is so small that it makes it difficult to handle them one at a time. Loading and unloading in the trailer , moving in and out of the barn ,harnessing and feeding. They are not happy just being able to see each other, they want to be with in touching distance.

Thanks Neal, I start with that.

Shanen mannies

Looking forward to seeing what is said on this subject. I had this problem with a team I had, I could never get it out of them. Its great when your using them together its an awful mess when trying to load, lead, and so on. I feel your pain. Good luck.

First off, recognize that the unwanted behavior stems from anxiety. The horses are comfortable when they are together and anxious when separated. So do not do anything to feed into that anxiety. Remain tranquil but firm. Do not get worked up or angry. The more that the horses trust in your leadership, the quieter they will become.

If you can leave one in a tie stall, trailer or other confinement while you work the other, that is much better than leaving one loose to run the pasture. Left to run, they will get themselves more worked up. I treat buddy sourness the same way I treat horses that won't stand: work them on a harrow until they are willing to stand quietly.

I'd put them to something that is a real job for them and work them at it until they are good and tired. Then, assuming they have ever been worked single, I'd tie one and work the other single with in site of each other while the first one get's a chance to rest, then switch. I'd increase the distance and time getting out of sight of each other a little at a time this way.

I just treat this situation like weaning a foal. Split 'em up, as far apart from each other as is practical. It must be a secure accomodation, as in high enough and tight enough. It's noisy for a couple days and nights, maybe, but works every time.

S d Mannies
How long have you had these boys? It sounds like it has not been for too long, maybe less than a year? I have found that for me it seems that it takes almost a year for a new horse to really be comfortable with me and understands that I am in control of the herd. I am only speculating but perhaps they are not yet settled into the herd and finding security from each other?
perhaps I am stating the obvious.
Billy

When you split them up, it would be even better if you could move one to a friend's farm for a few weeks. In loading, if you can drive into the field, bring both horses up, load one and leave the other. Both will have a temper tantrum. It is much like weaning but the animals are bigger and both act like the foal. With all respect to John Lyon's, few people have the time it would take to do all that leading in and out of their comfort zones. Because it will take a LOT of time.

We were recently forced to tackle this issue head on when one teammate was injured and the other had to be used single for a while. Mind you, these boys were half brothers, had been worked as a team their whole lives, and like you described, you couldn't even lead one in from the far pasture without the other totally going nuts. So, when he got hurt, like the suggestions here, we took it slow, but they were able to interact through the stall rail or window twice a day. I just flat didn't have time to go out and work it out of them. Instead, every day for about 3 days, after their grain/ interaction time, the good horse was put into a paddock where he could see the hurt horse, but not interact. After 3 days, he was moved to a paddock where he could hear but not see. These paddocks were all familiar to him, he just hadn't been alone. By the end of the first week, we had work to do, so I hitched up to a stone boat and we drug it in circles around the pasture for a couple of hours. He was spunky, but still listened. By the time we were done, he was much more relaxed and not yelling for the other horse at all. Over the next week, we did increasing amounts of work with him, and by the end of the week, he acted the same way as when he used to be a team. He handled it quite well after the initial week of separation.

Then we got a new horse. The original horse had learned, so he was fine if I took him out alone, but the. The new horse would kind of flip out. In his case, I just did what I had to do. I have ground driven him a bit single, and done all sorts of miscellaneous things where I just put a halter on him and lead him somewhere, or leave him while I lead the other horse out. Like some posts said, he always stays calmer and relaxes faster if he is tied somewhere. He gets more worked up if I leave him to run free in a paddock while alone. When I have him on a halter, I just don't give him a choice. When I lead, he goes. I actually had to use a chain over the nose in the beginning, or he would turn and just pull me the other way. I don't have to do that now. When I used to put him in the cross ties alone, he would dance all over the place. Now, he stands very nicely. His biggest fault now is his lack of a stop when I drive him, but he's improving.

Hope that helps.

Update,
Billy , I have only had the boys 4 weeks.
There is no herd ,just me . They are a nice team and give me 100 percent when in the harnesses as a team. I knew when I bought them this was a issue. I know it will take some time to get to the level that I expect,but this childish behavior is not going to be left unchecked.
Jenny , I thought of the trailer in the pasture, but was afraid of making them sour to the trailer. I have been moving them in
and out of their comfort zone and separating by 20 feet or so when giving them there lunch break , rather than letting them stand as a team. It's made a little bit of a difference. The full weaning would likely be a great way to deal with this, but I need them to work in the woods , just not able to do it right now. I'm going to start working them single as Jerry suggest this weekend in the woods in sight of each other.

Shanen mannies

Just to clarify: I meant in order to move them, easiest way would be to take the trailer into a fenced area. Wasn't suggesting to leave the trailer in there and use it daily for separating the horses.

Jenny, my bad. I miss under stood. I had thought of putting one in the trailer and tying the other to the outside for a while,
when I take the first one out , the other one got all worked up before I can get him out.
I have been spending a lot of time moving them in and out of their comfort zone ( work work work )and it is paying off. It has not been as bad as I thought it would be and it has made them a lot more comfortable with me. Still not ready to go solo, but it has made it much easier and safer to handle them one at a time. Thanks to everyone for your response.

Shanen mannies

A lot of buddy-sour-ness is just noise and fuss. If you don't respond to it and remain quiet and fair and just go about your business, they get over it much faster than if you nag at them to hush and to stand still. And whatever you do, don't ever try to soothe a buddy-sour horse. That just seems to make it worse; seems to confirm in their mind that there is something to be upset about.

The more frequently you can separate the two, the more they can see that the world will not come to an end when they are apart.