We bought a new horse some time ago to replace our injured boy on the team. In order to get a decent match for our team, we weren't able to be too picky. We got a nice, English-trained, 11-yr old Belgian gelding. We took the experts advice to "drive, drive, drive!" I have been driving frequently enough, the horses haven't needed a hoof trim since we bought them (any of them)--they just rasped to even things up a bit, but the wear is very even and thorough (no shoes).

I have a new appreciation for my amish-trained boys though. This new guy wears me out!!! I think his last driver probably used a much firmer hand than I do, and he initially took a LOT of pressure on the bit to get a response. I spent the first several weeks trying to get him a bit more sensitive, as well as teach the whoa, which hardly seemed to exist in his vocabulary (or brain). Granted, he has improved tremendously. He has gone from not stopping within 100 feet to stopping within 10 feet MOST of the time (as in 60-70%). After driving about 4-5 miles a day for 2 weeks, I finally started ground driving from behind with hubby walking in front of him with a whip in hand. When I said whoa, hubby smacked the ground in front of the horse. He quickly figured out the stop. Obviously, though, that isn't practical day-to-day. He has also gone from standing for no more than 2 seconds to standing for 20-30 minutes at a time when necessary. So, drastic improvement, but still need a lot of work. Particularly when I am skidding logs, his lack of a stop really needs further improvement. When he sets his mind to pulling, I might as well be trying to stop a train. There is just no disengaging him sometimes. I usually have to deal with the problem by turning him, which works to disengage the forward motion enough I can stop him. When skidding in the woods, though, this is not always possible, and many times, I have been forced to follow him some distance down a trail until he decides to stop as commanded. The problem exists whether he is hitched to a vehicle or being ground driven. He isn't discriminatory. The only time he really responds well I have found, is when driven almost every day for several hours/miles (which I am currently unable to do more than a few times a week if that), or when he is actually tired after a longer day's work. Today, we almost got into a mess because of the issue. The team was hooked to a stone boat, and I was delivering something to a spot in our yard that was a bit tight, but had a nice path around our gardens to drag the stone boat through. We've done this before. Today, though, the horse got it in his head he was going back to the barn. We got into this tight area, I asked them to whoa so I could drop the item, and the horse took an immediate 90* turn to the left, crushing my garden beds, bending the attachment rings on my stone boat, actually dragging the boat over a low stump, etc. before I got them stopped. No one was ever in danger, but still, it COULD result in a big issue if I don't get control of disengaging that motion!

To clarify, we are about 2 months into owning him. Our other horse and new teammate, is much more sensitive, and responds almost on a dime as commanded when on his own or partnered with the injured horse. However, not when teamed up with the new horse. In this case, (maybe because he is younger at 5 years?) he follows the lead of the new horse. When new horse goes, he goes along, when new horse finally stops, original horse stops too. I think he just lacks the experience/confidence to plant his hooves and hold that disobedient one back when told!

What is the best way to improve the stop? One suggestion we have been given, both to improve his walking a straight line (he's more like a drunken sailor) and to tire him a little, is to go plow a LOT. We have a resource here who has offered his field and plow and said "have at it!" He told us to do as many circles, squiggles, and wobbles as it takes to get a straight line, and I guess when he's tired enough to walk a straight line, he should stop too.

Advice or thoughts appreciated.

Hi

Our girls also had issues with stopping and still have issues with standing.
We started training them pulling a sled with a weight on it, and a groom, when I indicated stop (yo'oh in French) then the groom (my wife) would stop in front of them and grab them and stop them (thumping if necessary), then gradually simply stand in front and not hold them, then finally not stand in front.
This worked for stopping, but standing is still proving touch and go

Simon

I always taught horses to Whoa by leading them up and down the road, stopping, turning and backing until they Whoa'd on a dime. Then after I hitched them, I drove them into a corner, any corner where there was no way they could not stop. Never had a problem with them not catching on. I wouldn't hitch him up with your other horse until he has that Whoa down pat or you may have TWO horses to retrain!

Horse sounds like he has been driven enough to get too fit for the amount of controlled work you have for him. If you have the opportunity, work him in the woods with a halter and rope attached. Tie him off to a tree whenever you stop. When working in open, try to have a load behind him so he will be glad to stand when asked. My green horses always have a solid object to stop in front of. As Nora mentioned, set them up so they have to stop.

I don't know if it is simple or not, but put him behind something that is heavy enough to make him work, not hurt him, and drive him till he is ready to stop and is glad for whoa. Then let him go till he is glad to stop again. After about a week of that and several hours a day, you will have a horse who is glad to stop. my opinion.

That is why I like a wagon with good brakes. Just pitch some slack, holler whoa and lock up the brakes on a good load. If you have some soft ground, a running W will do the same. Whoa needs to be a spoken command that is never forgotten.
Fellow was hollering "back" to a pup. This old hand started hollering "get ahead". Reason was the pup wasn't going to get so they may as well teach him something.
In the woods, I'd pull his head into a tree.

I bought a horse like that and I ended up using as a single until she understood whoa and standing. I hooked her up in forecart and harrowed and spread manure with her until she would stop when asked and stand when needed. Then I put her back together with my other horse and worked the pair last winter they pulled sleighs for a dinner ride outfit and did wonderful.

Teaching whoa has to begin with making the horse want to whoa.... By teaching the merit and value of whoa. This requires working the horse until he wishes to stop, not allowing the horse to choose to stop on his own, then allowing the horse to stop at a moment of your choosing, accompanied by the verbal command. Repeat for a very long time. The more fit a horse is, the harder it is to tire him and the less he will value "whoa". It is the most important and also the hardest thing to instill in a horse. "Whoa" is really what you are paying for when you send a horse off to be trained.

It's like trying to get an energetic little kid to lay down for a nap. He don't wanna! Then, when you're older and tired, you are grateful to take an afternoon nap. You truly value it.

You didn't mention which kind of bit you are using. Maybe he is used to a different bit and doesn't associate what he feels now with stopping. If he was driven English style, he may not have heard the verbal command "whoa", just felt a pull on the lines. I have always had good success with Liverpool bits.
Everything said above is valid, too, but of course a horse has to stop when asked at any time, and not only because he is tired. In fact, in the initial training horses should be taught to stop long before one has them pull tiring loads.

I have the opposite issue with Fern. She'll stop any old time, and my task is restarting her along until she wants to stop again. For what we do, it's no big deal, but I'm amazed at the combinations of issues we face with our animals. Any suggestions on how we keep moving without these frequent stops and my use of the goad stick? -Peter

Peter, the only way to NOT have these problems keeping animals moving or stopping is to mechanize. But I don't think any of us here would prefer a relationship with a tractor over one with a horse. :)

Whoa is standing. Teach standing first. Harness and tie the team to the hitching rail and let them stand together for a couple hours each day for a couple weeks before work.

Plowing is ok, but harrowing is better in my opinion, for the issue at hand and the result you need. If you have the opportunity to work this way 3 days per week .. harness and let stand, work for a couple hours, give them a feed and water break, then repeat as many times per day as there are daylight hours .. you should be good in a couple weeks' time.

An 11 yr old has both unlearning and learning to do when he moves to a new farm, new job, new culture. Think of him as a 50 yr old man, who has his own ideas already. Patience and perseverance and empathy may be helpful.

If he seems to persist with the unruliness, cut his groceries until he gets smarter. No oats, not the best hay, but plenty of work.

Best team was drive them till they. wanted to stop. Never let them get ansy standing. Drive them until they wanted to stop again. After 3 weeks they should know that whoa is a relief. You don,t need a big load but a rubber tired wagon won't do it.500 lbs on a stone boat might do it. If they still can't figure it out add weight. And stop the grain and good hay.