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Girth too tight?
Posted by John Bock at 2014-08-15 23:02:53
My mare is round as a barrel, no wither at all, and the cart saddle tends to slip to the side. Right now we are working with a surcingle rig pulling tires and even that can slip if she's not listening to the reins and I am pulling too hard to one side( I run the reins through rings in the surcingle then through the hame rings). She actually has a very soft mouth and when she's really going well you feel like you are just bearing the weight of the reins in your hands, you can turn right by giving with the left rein rather than pulling with the right. I have been trying to figure out why she acts up when I'm driving her, kicks out, wants to trot when I want to walk. I wonder if she is uncomfortable because I am trying to tighten the girth as much as possible to prevent slipping. She does not resist harnessing and shows not signs of discomfort while I am tightening the girth. I use straps running forward from the cart saddle to the lower hame ring, I don't know the proper name of these straps and I understand their purpose is to keep the collar from sliding forward when the horse puts its head don't, they do a poor job of preventing lateral slip, my harness maker suggests that I try crossing them.
Response by Jenny at 2014-08-16 10:28:47
A harness is not supposed to be tightened like that around the girth. Without a picture, it's pretty hard to figure out what is going wrong here but the girth is not supposed to be tight. The fact that the mare hasn't broken something shows how forgiving she is.
Response by Barb Lee at 2014-08-16 10:42:44
John,
Usually the girth is not done up snugly on a carriage harness. If your saddle has a tree in it, it may be too narrow, causing the ends of the padded area to dig in to the flesh on either side of the spine,especially if you are driving a two-wheeler that is not balanced well and placing a lot of pressure across the saddle. Attempting to tie the saddle in place can result in just transferring pressure from one area to another. Check to make sure that you're adjusting your traces the right length so that your horse is pulling with the collar and not with the saddle. Try spreading a damp chamois skin on the horse's back under the harness saddle to prevent slippage from side to side. Works a treat with riding saddles. Your description really sounds like symptoms of pain somewhere and it may have nothing whatever to do with the slipping saddle.

Barb
Response by grey at 2014-08-16 11:40:04
Are there any lower rings on your surcingle that you can run the lines through? I know that the "correct" place for them is up high, but if you run them lower, I've found that you don't spin the surcingle as easily that way. Also, if you're just ground driving, try leaving the hame line rings out of the equation. Run the lines through a lower set of rings on the surcingle and then go directly to the bit. See if you get better results this way. Loosen the girth a bit, as others have said.

Until you get past this hurdle, try to keep the mare "bracketed" between the lines... that is, walk behind her and keep one line on either side of the horse's rump, rather than passing one line over her back so you can walk to one side. I know it's more difficult to do it this way when she's pulling something, but try it and see if she softens. Maybe rig up some longer lines so you can safely walk behind the tire that she's dragging.

Is this mare broke? Or are you training each other? This will help us know how to advise you.
Response by John Bock at 2014-08-16 16:05:20
The mare and are broke about the same, not much. I bought her as a 4 y.o. broke to drive single and double, but she had not been used much, the breeder was transitioning from haflingers to percherons for a carriage business and had one generation of crossbreds, this mare was never used in the trade, she was larger than the other F1's and did not have a mate to make a pair. I built a European style heavy farm cart (no singletree) and had to make the cart saddle as well on a wooden tree. I posted pictures of the rig on this site at the time. I was using her to put out square bale hay and leading her to and from the field, but she never settled down to the job, always restless, wanted to break into a trot. So this year I thought we should start all over from the beginning, couple of weeks of ground driving, now pulling tires. I was not going to move up to the cart until we had this stage well in hand. She is much better behaved driven than she was on a lead rein.
I can try moving the lines down to her flanks on the surcingle and bypassing the hame rings.
Right now we are not using the cart saddle with the wooden tree, so pressure on her back should not be an issue.
I do appreciate your thoughts, you cannot imagine what a delight she is to drive when she is being good.
Response by Jenny at 2014-08-17 10:37:46
Even a heavy farm cart should be balanced well so that back pressure shouldn't be an issue. If you pick up the shafts, how much weight brings to bear? One of the things that people generally forget to do is teach their horses to stand. With her being restless to move off, she may be trying to anticipate you and teaching to stand will help with that as well as many other potential problems in harness. People often skip that part. Also,you may have better results in her early training using an open bridle, which can be a riding bridle while you're ground driving, instead of buying something else. You show good sense by going back to the basics.
Response by John Bock at 2014-08-17 11:10:46
Went with a loose girth today, crossing the straps going forward from the surcingle to the lower hame ring helped some to keep the surcingle from slipping too much, but these innovations did not improve her fussy behavior while ground driving. Good thought though, glad I did it. Plan now is more work each day and still hoping to find a companion draft pony for her mental health. Thanks
Response by M. Burley at 2014-08-17 20:09:29
John, we have a mare that could never keep a harness on straight. A crupper was the only way to keep things aligned. Keep adding tires and keep us posted. Good luck.
Response by Mooney Ranch at 2014-08-17 22:50:45
John, does the harness (surcingle) have undershots. A strap between the front legs hooked to the quarter straps will help keep the harness from pulling as bad.

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