If you were preparing to ascend a hill with a driving horse(s) hitched to cart, wagon or carriage, what gait would you consider appropriate?

Even if you were a trail rider (non competitive)...what gait would you expect your horse to maintain up the hill?

And most importantly, what is your rationale for selecting the gait?

Looking forward to opinions!

Barb

I want to see if anybody has a serious "one size fits all" answer to this question. :-) This should be fun.

I think it depends on a whole lot of potential variables, not least of which is what's on the other side of the hill.

It depends on the horse or horses, breed, age, temperament, size of the hill both percent slope and distance, size of the load, condition of the road, if it is a road, the weather ..

But waxing slightly serious and hopefully not too long-winded, if it's a hill the horses know, all other things being equal, they usually get it figured out according to their own individual/collective preferences and abilities. Most heavy horses will probably be better off to walk, while a road horse probably could keep up its jog/trot unless loaded heavy on a steep and/or long haul, or on ice or mud. Most people probably have had saddle horses that could go anywhere any time any speed all day, while others can't stay on their feet if there's a pebble in the path. But I know people do love Appaloosas anyway, and I once had a really good one too. :-)

Sometimes it might even be better to go around the hill.

Most of the hills I get into nowadays in my old age, I'm hauling a load of some kind and am most apt to use low gear going up and coming down. Days gone by I was way more reckless than that, although I wouldn't recommend it.

Left to its own devices, a horse will usually speed up to a trot or extended trot going uphill because it's easier to pull the burden. And I would insist on it slowing down to a walk going downhill on the other side. Of course, it all depends upon all the variables mentioned by T. Payne above.

Maybe try a "search". There was an extensive discussion within the last year.

My team always wants to speed up going up hill. Someone wrote in some time ago and explained it is easier for them to do so. Try to hold them back and you are increasing the work. This is not always good paricularly if you are mowing. Pulling a mower at a trot is a little iffy particularly if the ground is rough. So far they havn't totally out of control...but almost.

It's funny in Australia in the log snig or obstacle course you get penalized if your horse trots up hill. I let the horses have a trot uphill, unless I am trying to really make them work hard for a particular reason.

when pulling a bale up a hill I let my horses jog up. The momentum helps them pull the load. When trail riding I frequently insist they remain in a walk (if that is what we were doing) just for the disciplin. But there are some very steep hills where I'll ask for a jog if it is the best way to scramble up the slope.

Janet

It all depends on the terrain, your experience and comfort level. First you need to know you CAN control the gait. If you can control the gait then if you are comfortable and decide to let them trot then that is certainly up to you. When I am trail riding in the back country I often will allow them to trot up the hills, but most of the time the hills are so long that they either stop half way for a breather, or begin to walk. Now, if it is REAL steep and rocky as well, I might make them walk, but again depending on the situation, sometimes it is safer to let them go for s short distance and pick their best path. If I try to control them too much and am pulling on their mouths which can effect their balance, they slip more. I agree with what some others say too, I always make my horses walk going down hill. I use voice command to slow them "EASY". But always try to keep a loose rein and hold onto the horn (when riding) and not their mouth, again they need their balance. If it's really steep and rocky I might take my feet out of the stirrups in case the horse does go down. My game plan may not apply to you, I ride in mountainous, rocky terrain at times.

I'm loving the responses! Much more fun than doing a search!

A little background. My two Morgans have agreed to try the pair thing again. It's the usual story though, the mare is pretty saucy this time of year, the gelding more laid back. When we begin to ascend a hill, a real competition builds. The mare is in a buck back but even though it restrains her, it does NOTHING to establish relaxation. Steve Bowers, in his book, suggests that you should hold horses to a walk on grades - that is big horses, I'm sure. You can't always treat a spitfire light horse the way you would a cooler temperament. Many years ago, when I didn't know much, I drove a Morgan mare in a breast collar to a big surrey. I managed to make a balker out of her by insisting she stop at the end of the driveway so I could check for traffic before turning right and going up the hill. So I'm a little torn. The mare is acting like a snotty kid, and while I think that even snotty kids should mind their manners, I don't want the thing to erupt into anarchy. But I hate the escalating, overblown reaction to going up a simple hill. Is it disobedience? I think there is a measure of disobedience to it, yes. But forcing a walk could end up backfiring. I am spending a lot of time riding the mare on a relaxed rein now, walking up hills (and ALWAYS down!) but so far, she's more tuned into her hormones than me! :o) Things are totally under control as far as the horses go...I am just playing a balancing act, trying to maintain calmness in the horses without becoming punitive in demanding they walk up hills.

Barb

Mine walk up the hill . Mine are 16 hand draft mules . If they were smaller I am sure I would let them trot up the hill . Then I would let them rest .

is it easer for you to run up the stairs or walk? I dont always walk or run uphill dependes If im in a hury or not. chasing wild cattle or horses, all bets are off just do the job. I'll walk my team loaded up hills & down on the flat ground I might trot the team I think it's easer on the team.

hmmm, well my inclination is if she is having a hissy fit letting her have her way can inflate her ego and lead to more trouble. this is why I think it is important to insist on a walk when it is 'their idea' to jog.

this is one of those things where it is so much easier to do in the saddle than it is driving.

Janet

Most horses are smart enough that they want to build momentum to the load. Makes it easier to go up the hill. But when they stall, they then will start at a walk or just lunge at the load.

Well, Janet, I have been having a serious think about all this! The main conclusion I've come to is that the mare is not being a stinker - she's doing what she thinks is the right thing to do. That comes from having not enough training to match her heart. Broke to death, but not so much trained, as in knowing how to rate herself and "finesse" responses to cues. That's because I'm primarily a single horse, pleasure driver, and a brisk single horse is a pleasure to drive! The time has come to address the issues of both excessive energy and learning to "rate". The amount of time this is consuming is phenomenal, but I know that if I want it bad enough - the pair - I'll have to earn it. Yesterday I drove her single, giving her plenty of hills, I told her, you pick the gait, I'll pick the rate. She was a fantastic drive, but still a little too "willing" on the hills. The last thing I want to do is spoil that generous willingness by inappropriate restraint, when the source of mischief, insufficient training, is my fault!

Barb

Barb,

"Yesterday I drove her single, giving her plenty of hills, I told her, you pick the gait, I'll pick the rate." and "when the source of mischief, insufficient training, is my fault!"

Just remember that anytime you use your horse, you are training her. Set a goal to have a few steps at a walk, maybe planning on transitions as you go up the hill. I know it is tough to do - I have a Morgan mare that has taken us up more than one hill on the lines (slack traces.) She is better now that she is more secure in her skills than when she was still somewhat green.

Anyway, she will never walk a hill if you do not ask you to walk. You may have to ask for only a few steps and then ask for a stop. You have said that she is a quick learner, can you figure a reward system while you are driving?

Neal

Barb, that's the kicker isn't it? it can be tough sometimes knowing just what is the right thing to do. All I can say if you had possitive results you must be doing the right thing.
Janet

Neal, she will definitely walk up a hill, especially in single harness, but I'm rooting up the reasons why she becomes so competitive in pair harness, trying to determine if she has the physical strength to do what I'm asking - trying to decide if "momentum" in animal traction for pulling a load up a hill is a myth or a fact, those sorts of things. Folks can tell me all day long that horses need trot/gallop momentum to get a load up a hill, but I am going to have to see written proof of studies done before I believe it. I've driven my horses up in the Cascades a lot. We've driven up washed out, boulder-y, long, steep trails. If he had to trot/canter the whole grade when we got into rough/steep going, he'd have been dead by the time he got to the top. I also know that if you let a horse trot/gallop up hills all the time, eventually you will never be able to get them to walk. I think that's why you see so many train wrecks going up hills on group rides. 200 horses have gone up the muddy slope, horse number 201 tries to gallop up the snotty slippery slope and is combative with his rider when not allowed to do it at a dead run to catch up with the other horses...He should walk and pick his way, but can't be managed. I kind of feel that at least in our mountainous country, you let a horse trot or gallop up the hill, he'll run out of gas before you get to the top, may quit on you, or he just ends up getting so darned fit - and used to having his own way - that you've just created a big fat problem.

Janet, I am going allllll the way back to ground work, and discovered that the mare is absolutely gifting me for letting me even put a harness on her this spring! :o) She is just absolutely full of it! And has still been a fantastic ride/drive, but too het up in our new pursuit of pair driving. I round penned her for about 35 minutes yesterday before she got her brain in gear and began to listen. Now I have a starting place, and a great training opportunity, and thanks to the answers here, a new feeling of clarity about the subject. It's okay to trot when it's appropriate, but all the background needs to be in place before the horses can really comply and leave the decision making to the driver. The buck back won't accomplish that - but it will help sometimes when it's really needed.

Barb

Ok now I have thought about this, not to hard. I never let any team or single go faster then a trot. I have one very good reason for this, around here it is just to darn rough. If ya go any faster you and your wagon or cart will soon part company. Now I always walk up hills and if I dont have breaks I do the best we can to walk down the hill also. Here in the sandhills there is just to many gophers and badgers making holes. and I do not want to risk a mule stumbling going up or down a hill. I take salt around pastures and have 1500 to 2500# of salt on the wagon. We go over some big hills and if one stumbles it could be very bad. Also the bouncing is hard on the wagon, and harder on me. Now when I go to town to get the salt I let the team trot (on good oil). it sure trims feet nice. have one team I cant get to cross the bridge. This is a problem that I am going to have to work out.


Jim