O. K. I have a question for all you really smart people out there. We have a seatbelt law in our state. The slogan is seatbelts save lives, Iam not disputing this, but is my life more valuable than the people riding motorcycles. Motorcycles comingle with trucks pulling trailers cars 18wheelers at highway speeds and faster. Iam surrounded by steel on four stable wheels, with air bags and other safety features. The motorcycles are on two wheels surrounded by air with no safety features. If seatbelts save lives then we need to band all motorcycles and save there lives. 99.9 percent of all motorcycles accidents end up in a fatally. And whats really crazy is that motorcycle insurance is cheaper than my one ton insurance. I guess people that drive trucks and cars lives are more valuable because we have a law that if we don't wear our seatbelt we will get a ticket. Now before anyone says anything about me getting a ticket, I haven't gotten one. I was driving down the road at the speed limted of 70 MPH when several motorcycles pasted me. Then it came to me that we need to save there lives and band all motorcycles from highway use. Now Iam not againest motorcycles, Iam againest the goverment making me wear a seatbelt in a vehicle that I bought, payed taxes on, pay the insurance on, pay for the fuel, and all the maintance. Then there going to tell us we HAVE to wear a seatbelt to save our live or get a fine. Something is not right about this, it should be our choice NOT the goverments.

Im oregon a while back oregonians actually voted against seatbelts in a number of votes I believe and then some b$#ch governer who did not last very long said we were gonna have it anyways. hehe We had our chance to do it the democratic way but we didnt do it their way so we got it crammed down our throats.
In the meanwhile someone came up with this greenhouse like idea that others not using seatbelts raises OTHERS insurance or maby it was just if you vote on something enough times it will sooner or later pass/ be accepted.

sigh

Russians said give democracy 200 years to fail. They were totally off hehe took at least 225 years! we showed them!

... and I vision seatbelts for horses

In Iowa, I have to wear my seatbelt in my vehicle, but can ride a motorcycle without a helmet. There was a helmet law here back in the 70's but if I remember correctly was worded in such a way that kids on tricycles would be required to wear a helmet. Actually it's the insurance companies that should be requiring seatbelt/helmet use. No seatbelt, no helmet, no insurance settlement check. But then if insurance didn't pay out the government (you and me) would be paying for your long term care when you are maimed in a accident.
Keeping it semi ag related, 4H and FFA require helmets in different riding events. Wish they would do more to teach the kids helmet fit. Geez they are a bigger hazard or useless the way some wear them.

It's not about a life. It's about the money they get from that fine!!!!

The odds are, seat belts can increase your chances of surviving an automobile wreck. The odds that you or your passengers will burn to death in your car or drown in your car BECAUSE of seatbelts are slimmer odds. You don't get to choose which risk you want to take because this is not a free society. Feel free to smoke yourself into an iron lung but BUCKLE UP or pay the penalty! I personally feel that since I often forget to buckle up before I'm under way the odds are slightly increased that I'll have an accident because of giving too much of my attention to buckling my seat belt in traffic.
The reason motorcyclists pay less for insurance than you do is because a motorcycle does less damage than your pickup when it runs into things. Laws are made by LOBBYISTS, not average Americans. Almost all lobbyists are on somebody's payroll. Your question and mine is "Does the government have the right to prevent us from making bad choices?"
ed

John. I agree with you. It should be up to me. Here lately I've chose to wear it though. Not because of the law but because now days everybody wants my side of the road. Seems like every curve and backroad their taking their half out of the middle.Decided to wear it on my own. Gotta lot to live for with that new grandson.

WE have a seatbelt law also,and a car seat law for children also, it is possible to have your chidren taken away if they are not in their car seats,but kids can ride on mototcycles without any restraint does that make any sense?

If this upsets you, you better be sitting down when Cap & Trade and Universal Health Care get here.

AMEN JOHN!!!
..my Hubby and I have said the same thing for years.

It simply comes down to the fact that government types will do whatever they damn well please. It amazes me how many stupid people have nice paying, cushy government jobs making farmers(and a lot of
4-H kids)miserable.

I think NAIS is the stupidest thing I've ever heard of...but, if we give it thought, WE are all numbered too: social security number, drivers license number. Our vehicles have license plates, VIN numbers. Our dogs have to wear number tags. It's no real surprise that our farm critters would be the next target.
I hope smart farmers win the fight against NAIS...a guy in an office 500 miles away shouldn't be allowed to tell anyone what they're allowed to do with their critters!

And he shouldn't be allowed to force me to wear a seatbelt either.

What I have a hard time with is, they force us to wear our sealtbelts in OUR cars that WE paid for which to me is like telling me what I can and cannot do in MY house. BUT they don't have seltbelts on the school buses.

Alright, lets get a couple things straight. First 99.9% of MC accidents DO NOT end up as fatalities. That's just ridiculous. #2- The seatbelt is there to prevent you, or your kids, from being ejected and having the car land on you, like happened to my dead sister, or striking the roof and breaking your neck, like happened to my father, also deceased. It's there to prevent your 3 year old from eating the windshield, like the kid I tried unsuccessfully to save on the side of the road one night, or having your baby ejected out of the car and into a fire hydrant- I got to go tell Mom and Dad about that at a relatives wedding reception. Above all else it's to prevent injuries which cost all of us money through increased insurance rates. Strapping someone to a MC is stupid. Use your head. And while I don't like the idea of kids on MC's I don;t see any law preventing in my State yet. Give them time and then you all can complain about that too.

Well, the only insurance you need in a motorcycle accident, really , is life insurance.

From my paying gig in public safety, (as opposed to the hoping to break even someday with a farm), and yes "I am the government and I am here to help you", seatbelts and helmets save lives. I don't really care what the government or the insurance says, it's common sense. A favorite saying, "Idiots Equals Job Security." For God's sake at least buckle your kids up. I only know of three wrecks in sixteen years that caught fire. All three were no longer of this earth regardless. It's not hollywood cars don't explode because you kicked the bumper wrong. I know of many survivable wrecks that weren't because of no seatbelts or helmet. Extrication is easy when they've been thrown forty feet from the vehicle. If you feel the need to "show the government" by not wearing your seat belt, thank you for the job security. Another thought born of our bicycle riders here who don't share the road very well. They may be legally right to take the whole lane. When someone comes over a hill and takes them out, right was a small consolation. Oh, and I don't get the no seatbelts on school buses either.

Close to where my mom lives, there's a giant Harley Davidson dealership. It's constantly swarming with geezers! :o) Guys on bikes that fall over on them because they're not big and strong enough to hold up the great monster Hogs anymore. And they've all got "the look," just like cowboys, just like bicyclists, just like hippies and goths. LOL! I think it's the new way to reduce the old goat population.

Barb (one of the old goats, more likely to die from falling off a turnip truck, wearing the grubby tee-shirt and jeans uniform, with the ubiquitous bandana.)

come to think of it i have known of several people that have died becouse when they wrecked the seatbelts busted their innards and they bled out inside. seems to me thats its a lose lose situation. besides all the goverment cares about is the money from the fines. and the insurance companys want a loophole the get out of payin up when you get hurt

Yeah, & when they scrape you off the road & deposit you in the closest Emergency Department it should be the hospital's choice not to treat you because you chose not to wear a seatbelt.

However, the hospital must treat you.

The issue is not whether it's a good idea to wear a seatbelt. It's about free men and women making their own decisions.
ed

Our seat belt law started like this; first it was a secondary offence. That meant they could not pull you over for no seatbelt but if they stopped you for something else they could also ticket you for no belt. Then the fed.govt. said we will pay you to make it a mandatory law so they did with a 25.00 fine. Send it in, no court cost. So it was definately about the money. By the way. I'm in Ky.

Regarding school buses, my brother in law is head bus guy, I think it's called transportation director now, at their local school. He told me several years ago there has been studies done and kids are safer NOT belted on school buses due to the construction of the bus. When I was in kindergarten (many, many moons ago) a seatbelt on the school bus may have saved me. We hit a very big bump driving through road construction and I bounced off the back of the seat in front of me with my nose. Broke it.
My nose, not the seat.
I wear seatbelts, so do my kids and any passengers. I'm responsible for my passengers safety. You ride with me and don't want to wear your seatbelt, you can walk.
JMathis, I'm with you. Get the bicycles off the road. There was an accident earlier this year where a bicyclist was run over by an anhydrous nurse tank. Broke the guys pelvis. Bicyclists were in an uproar, demanding stiffer laws, etc. It was a curvy, hilly county road.

the reason we have to wear seat belts is insurance companys. belts cut down on head injurys. thats all

I agree with JMathis. I too have a qovernment job that is thriving thanks to people who don't believe in abiding by the laws of this country. I have done some studying of seatbelt laws and I can promise you that it is not so the government can collect your money. In the state of Idaho the fine is $10. It costs more to write the ticket than the fine equals. I agree that free men and women should be allowed to make their own decisions. However, I am a free man that doesn't think it is fare that I have had to pull dead bodies from wrecked vehicles because the occupants decided not to wear their seatbelts. It is not fare to the families of those involved that they lose their loved ones. Believe it or not the government is not always out to get us. Occasionaly we do need saved from ourselves. I bet no one on this post would like to legalize meth or cocaine. That is another way the government is saving people from themselves. Don't get get me wrong I believe that government can go to far but I believe that ours is still the best there is.

"come to think of it i have known of several people that have died becouse when they wrecked the seatbelts busted their innards and they bled out inside. seems to me thats its a lose lose situation."

Any accident that results in death from internal bleeding from the seatbelt would also likely result in death from the unrestrained body striking the steering wheel/dash. Using logic like that is the same as the idiots who believe every car catches fire when it is in an accident.

Also, saw a study done on seatbelts in cars hit from the side and apparently (don't know if this has been corrected), lots of them were turning loose when hit from that direction. But, I wear a seatbelt all the time, for the benefit of those who would attempt a rescue in the event of an accident, not because I necessarily think it would save my life.

I chose not to wear a sealt belt will never weare one.. will never wearone. Helment laws suck my cousin is dead because of a broken neck, helment has 2 second skid then grabs breaks your neck.. Ive had 3 high speed wrecks with motercycles over 80 MPH lucky walked away no hospital . will never wear a helment. Dont protect me from my self.

O. K. It seems that everyone has gotten off of what I was saying. If the goverment is going to make us wear seatbelts to save our lifes, then the goverment needs to band all motorcycles from highway use and save there lifes. I would much rather have a wreck in a truck/car not wearing a seatbelt than have any kind of wreck riding a motorcycle on any highway. As for all you goverment employees you can't save the world, we are suppose to live in a FREE COUNTRY were we can decide. So lets say that you goverment employees or a little over weight. So lets pass a law that you can't eat but one meal a day so we can save your life. When the goverment starts paying for all the trucks and cars and there up keep then they should be able to have a seatbelt law. Motorcycles are more dangerous than not wearing a seatbelt, thats just common sense. Let me ask you goverment employees do you have seatbelts on your wagons when you are out driving you teams? If not then tell me why? Could it be so you can jump off if you see that there is going to be a bad wreck and you can't get it under control. Would you rather jump than be seatbelted in and let the wagon roll over. Isn't that you right to decide for your self. Just a thought but if you keep letting the goverment decide for you then you are becomeing a communist and not even knowing it.

States receive federal funding. One requirement to continue the funding is to have seatbelt laws. So the feds take your money, give part of it to someone else and and some back to you and tell you how to live!

If this is a FREE COUNTRY, how come we're all paying taxes???
If this was truly a free country then those of you who wish too could drive without seatbelts. Then those of us who wear seatbelts could choose not to rescue you from crashes. Or choose not to care for you in your hospital bed. Or choose not to provide monitary support to your survivors.
We could all go out and get drunk and drive 100+mph, crash and kill people, with no repercussions.
Life's a trade off, this is one of them. Get over it.
But then I too am a brainwashed government employee.

i dont like the seat bill law also, but make my grandkids where theirs, my thought if god wants me noting going to keep that from happing, just hopes he brings horses with me

John,

What you propose makes sense to you, but the biggest threat to motorcyclists is other vehicles, so let's ban cars and trucks and leave the roads to horses, oxen, motorcycles, bicycles and any other under 25 mph vehicle. Or you could even take it to the point of little cars are more apt to have fatal accidents, so let's outlaw any vehicle under 3,000#.

My guess is that you have seen some squirrely kid (squid) do something stupid on a motorcycle one too many times. Motorcyclist are the second biggest threat (to themselves) after the bigger vehicles.

Airplanes tend to have horrific death counts per crash, but low deaths per mile flown. Should we ban air travel?

We will have to agree to disagree on banning MC's

Neal (who takes a car's space and pretends to be invisible - whether on a mc, bike or in a cage)

"Assess the risk and take all prudent precautions."

John, comparing cars to motorcycles or wagons is silly. We HAVE to have auto insurance and we're all in the same pool. Cut injuries and we keep costs to ALL of us lower. I'm as much for free choice as anyone, but people are stupid as a rule and I don't see why I should be made to pay for someone elses stupidity which is what not wearing a belt is all about.

Barb touches on an interesting point about human beans: all the people out there trying to be different, look like all the other people out there trying to be different.

I'm a little late to this thread but I'd like to throw out one point that has yet to come up; seat belts keep the driver in front of the wheel, even when inertia is pulling him/her away from it. For example: If you hit some ice on a turn, having that belt hold you down can make the difference between regaining control of the vehicle and ending up as another overturned car in the ditch. I refuse to ride with anyone who drives without a belt, not because I'm worried about their safety - because I'm worried about mine.

We was cat logging some nasty ground, had a lot of poles laying on the ground and the 3T7 would buck really hard. After having to grab the exhaust stack to keep from being thrown out, the catskinner wove a net across the front of the canopy. Safety Sam made him take it off so he had the ability to jump off. Next year they put seat belts on the new cats but we weren't allowed to use them.
Nobody ever used a seatbelt on a rubber tired skidder after a jilpoke went through the operator and the seat. Limited your movement too much.

Dale, I've got some time on a skidder myself, but a skidder at 4 mph is different than a car at 55. Seatbelts are a good idea.

If you only run a skidder at 4mph, you'd never skid enough logs to work for me. Everything needs to run as fast as it will go. Gyppo loggers would laugh at you.

Motorcyclist don't have to wear helmets because they organized and formed organizations in every state, such as ABATE. These organizations have become powerful groups to fight draconian laws. The house and senate building here in Indiana has been overflowing with motorcyclist during debates and votes on laws concerning them, the general population never fought the law making us wear seat belts in pickups which we lost just a few years ago.

I wear my seat belt and it has saved my life once, I wear a full face helmet, gloves, and ballistic nylon jacket and it at least saved my hide, if not my life. I think if you chose to engage in activities Such as driving, smoking, drinking, riding motorcycles that you should have free choice, I however feel that if you don't take prudent measures by wearing proper protective equipment, wearing a seatbelt, stop smoking, designated driver, ect that they shouldn't have to treat you in the hospital if you don't have insurance, because when you make the taxpayers pay for your lack of safety, you safety becomes public business

Dale I don't think that old Franklin would break 4-5 mph going downhill with a full hitch. And that's not the point. Comparing a skidder to a car is comparing apples and refrigerators. I donlt wear a seat belt in a skid steer on a tractor and I don't wear a helmet on a horse. In a car we're all buckled and the kids are in car seats. I never went without a seatbelt when I was still on the job either and can tell you for certain it saved my life a number of times. If you don't believe in them fine, but making anyone who wears them out to a sissy or idiot somehow is just dumb.

To zman

I can only go along with your idea if you agree with mine. Now we all know how dangerous a bath tub is. I feel that every time you take a bath you should have to wear a helmet, shoulder pads, knee pads, elbo pads and a big pad on your back side. All this because I hate going to houses and pulling people out of bath tubs! Personally if you dont like the job get a different one!! The constitution dose not give you the rite to protect me unless I can protect you. Oh yea football is way to dangerous so we need to outlaw that too. Better yet why not let people take responsiblity for there actions? If John chooses not to wear a seetbelt and gets killed in a bad accident, you forget that John made the choice. Then you want to put Johns wife in all the papers and send her to Washington to make a speach about how a seatbelt would have saved his life (you dont know). Please zman you like to do reserch. Please find me the statistics on how many people were killed wearing seatbelts, or wearing helmets. Oh yea by the way I have called my state and they said that there is not any report released with that info. Hmmmmmmm go figure, so all that we have to go on is because you say so!!!! well I want proof.